You're now watching two strangers discuss your question!
Question to discuss:
Obama 2008-∞
Stranger 1: YES!
Stranger 2: not my fault
Stranger 1: I'm Australian but I love Obama
Stranger 2: may I ask why?
Stranger 1: because he's Liberal :) hopefully he introduces a national medical thing so America won't be so fucked uo
Stranger 1: up
Stranger 1: then he can introduce a gun ban
Stranger 1: and remove American troops from countries they shouldnt be in
Stranger 1: and then he'll be good :)
Stranger 2: why ban guns if Australia and England both have at least a 200% higher violent crime rate?
Stranger 1: we hardly ever hear about crime in Australia
Stranger 1: it's nothing compared to America
Stranger 2: we never hear about crimes hear in America either
Stranger 2: here*
Stranger 1: well we always seem to hear about your latest school shootings
Stranger 2: hear* damn im dumb lol
Stranger 1: your pyschopaths being put in jail
Stranger 1: or executed
Stranger 1: which is wrong
Stranger 2: and you're more likely to get hit by lightning than to die in a mass shooting
Stranger 2: and you're right, our mental health care system needs to be fixed
Stranger 2: don't blame the gun, blame the man behind it
Stranger 1: not your mental health your everything health.... you have to pay to go to the hospital like what is that?
Stranger 2: you don't blame cars for drunk drivers do you?
Stranger 1: if you have a broken arm you have to pay?
Stranger 2: I personally have health insurance through my job, so no I dont
Stranger 1: but when you give out guns to every random citizen who walks into a shop thats not right
Stranger 2: we don't 'give' them out
Stranger 2: you have to have a background check before you can buy any gun here
Stranger 1: what "hi what's your name? are you black? no.... then take a gun"
Stranger 1: that doesnt really count as a background check
Stranger 2: no it's more like "1 sec, we will call the NCIS background check system in Washington DC to be sure you are not a felon and have not committed any violent crimes"
Stranger 1: then why do lunatics, even 12 year olds still get guns? that isn't right......
Stranger 2: they steal them, they buy them illegally, how do criminals get guns?
Stranger 2: they commit a crime to do so
Stranger 2: you have to be 18 to buy any firearm, and 21 for handguns, and you must submit to a background check before every purchase
Stranger 2: it's not like we just sell them to anyone, that's a common misconception
Stranger 1: well it certainly seems that way, anyways i dont understand how people feel safer carrying around guns everywhere
Stranger 1: likes scary
Stranger 2: once you understand how a gun functions and you know how to use it, it can be a very effective tool to protect yourself
Stranger 2: do you understand how cops feel safe carrying a gun?
Stranger 2: it's the same way for a citizen, in most states, you have to take a training course to be able to carry a handgun in public
Stranger 1: police have authority, and are highly trained with guns, they dont just use them whenever they feel like, they are there to protect the public
Stranger 1: although sometimes they misuse them
Stranger 1: but guns arent for anyone to have on them in the streets
Stranger 2: you misunderstand how little it takes to become a police officer, atleast here
Stranger 2: again, not anyone can have them on the streets, you go through multiple background checks and training programs before you can carry one
Stranger 1: but do you not think it'd be safer if no one carried guns?
Stranger 2: I do not
Stranger 2: criminals will always be able to get their hand on a gun, or a knife for that matter, and I don't want to be mugged, or have my house broken into
Stranger 2: in that situation the criminal has 100% control over wether you live or die
Stranger 2: whether*
Stranger 2: so you feel safe knowing that a criminal could come take your life at any moment, and you couldn't do anything about it?
Stranger 1: exactly so what good is a gun going to do if the criminal has 100% control?
Stranger 2: he doesn't if I have a gun though
Stranger 2: it levels the playing field
Stranger 1: there is no need for guns, they only encourage violence, with that sort of thought i would feel encouraged to rob a bank, knowing i had 100% control of a situation
Stranger 2: if he has a knife, all the sudden im in control with a gun
Stranger 2: and that's why people like you shouldn't own firearms
Stranger 1: but with every trigger happy racist living in america owns a gun who would chose a knife?
Stranger 2: criminals who couldn't purchase a gun
Stranger 1: then wouldn't they steal one, like you said that they do before?
Stranger 2: they could do either or
Stranger 2: but even at that, if a criminal were to break into my house with a handgun, I feel safe knowing I have a shotgun, to defeat any threat like that to my family
Stranger 2: i will never let a criminal, a robber, a murderer be in control of my life or my families life, i will die before any harm comes to them, and the only way a can adequately defend myself from a range of situations, is with a gun
Stranger 2: it's simply the most effective tool to use in the defense of me or my loved ones
Stranger 2: is it so crazy to want to protect the life of me and my family?
Stranger 1: you're more likely to kill a family member than an intruder when you own a gun in your home
Stranger 2: can you please show me the statistics?
Stranger 1: search anywhere on the internet
Stranger 2: and it is estimated that there is between 1.7 and 2.5 million defesnsive gun uses per year in america
Stranger 2: that being, just showing a weapon, firing a warning shot, or actually shooting a criminal
Stranger 2: but about 2 millions compared to the less than 8,000 murders from guns?
Stranger 1: more like. more than 10,000 deaths by guns in the US
Stranger 2: theres around 30,000
Stranger 2: but over 15,000 of those deaths are suiciides
Stranger 2: suicides*
Stranger 1: well thats just depressing
Stranger 2: mhmm, but Japan has a higher suicide rate than the USA, and they've banned guns
Stranger 2: so you can't blame guns for those suicides
Stranger 1: I didn't I'm just saying it's sad that so many deaths are suicides :(
Stranger 2: i know it is, and it's unfortunate that so many people want to end their lives
Stranger 1: probably because of the shitty 3rd world living conditions of the USA
Stranger 1: hahahaha
Stranger 2: hahah not sure about that, but even with the few problems in America there a very simple solutions
Stranger 2: our medical system? my job provides me with medical benefits and insurance
Stranger 1: dont you have to pay for it but?
Stranger 2: crime? i have the tools i need to defend myself
Stranger 2: i don't have to pay for anything, it's a benefit from my employer
Stranger 2: think of it this way, if i get sick, i cant work, my employer loses money, they need me to be healthy so i can work so they buy my medical insurance to be sure im always healthy
Stranger 1: what about the unemployed?
Stranger 1: they are now disadvantaged
Stranger 2: mhmm they are
Stranger 2: and at what point is it okay for you to take my money without my consent, to help someone else?
Stranger 1: you don't care for your fellow brother?
Stranger 2: i do, and i actually volunteer at a local food shelter
Stranger 1: you wouldn't pay an extra 2 cents a week to help hundreds of people seek free health care?
Stranger 2: but you didn't answer my question
Stranger 1: its not without your consent, because it's called tax
Stranger 2: and what point is it okay to take away my money i worked for without asking?
Stranger 1: and thats law
Stranger 2: and certain taxes im okay with, roads, schools, those make sense
Stranger 1: but the health of another human being? no thank you
Stranger 1: ?
Stranger 1: what?
Stranger 1: how does that make sense?
Stranger 2: if i want to help other human beings, i will spend my time and my money on my own accord
Stranger 2: not be forced to do so
Stranger 1: isnt i a tad hippocrytical that you feed the homeless and those who are in need of others help... (so you provide it)
Stranger 1: but yet you wont provide them with the basic health care services they need?
Stranger 2: you don't know what charities I've donated to
Stranger 2: i've helped out many people, and i feel like i should, but that is my decision to make, not the governments
Stranger 1: I just cant imagine not being able to receive basic health care
Stranger 1: just because I dont have a job
Stranger 2: there are medicare and Medicaid programs in place for the unemployed by the way, that cover basic health care needs
Stranger 2: your high blood pressure? you may not be eligble for help, but your broken arm? they will fix it and they will find a way to make it affordable for you
Stranger 1: make it affordable? it should be free! I have a broken arm? you expect me to just die on the streets because I don't have the money to pay for it?
Stranger 2: 1. you wont die from a broken arm, 2. is your arm worth the $200 for a cast?
Stranger 2: and you expect me to pay because you broke your arm?
Stranger 1: I expect the government to be able to pay
Stranger 2: the government funded by my tax dollars
Stranger 1: I'm not going to sit in the streets freezing my tits off while these fat cats sit in their mansions in front of their fires eating fondu
Stranger 1: exactly so whats wrong with taxes for healthcare?
Stranger 2: it is directly taking my money to fix your broken arm, without my permission
Stranger 2: why do you expect others to pay for your broken arm?
Stranger 2: because you don't want to take responsibility?
Stranger 1: without your permisiion?
Stranger 1: hello its the government!
Stranger 1: How do they not have your permission
Stranger 1: you vote for these things dont you?
Stranger 2: i vote, not for these things though
Stranger 2: but why do you expect for others to pain for your injuries?
Stranger 2: to pay*
Stranger 1: you'll happily pay for a better road, so more cars can drive on it and pollute the earth, but you wont pay for someone's health?
Stranger 2: i'll happily pay for a better road that i use everyday to get to my job, yet
Stranger 2: yes*
Stranger 2: i'll happily pay for a better school that my child goes to
Stranger 2: but i will not pay for your injury
Stranger 1: that "I" use to get to MY job
Stranger 1: that MY child goes to
Stranger 1: but no YOUR injury
Stranger 2: that is paid for by MY money, yes
Stranger 1: sounds a bit selfish doesnt it?
Stranger 2: when it's my money being dictated by others, yes i will be selfish
Stranger 1: well this is why america has sooo many problems because people are being soo selfish and only worrying about their own money
Stranger 2: but i'm not selfish, I donate to chairites, i donate my time
Stranger 1: but not your money?
Stranger 1: wouldn't it just be easier to donate money
Stranger 1: rather than put in actual effort?
Stranger 2: not my work, my time that i worked for to earn that money
Stranger 2: yes i would, i would much rather serve a meal to a homeless person than to give him $5 to buy one
Stranger 1: would you rather perform surgery to remove the bullet he got shot with, when he was asking someone for food, when they pulled out their gun and shot him as an act of 'self-defense'...... rather than pay 2 cents a week so the government can do it
Stranger 1: ?
Stranger 2: i would rather the person be sentenced to jail and pay for his medical fees (which is what would happen)
Stranger 2: that is the gun man's fault, therefore he is responsible for his injuries
Stranger 2: i'm not, you're not, the government is not, the shooter is
Stranger 2: hold those who are accountable for their actions
Stranger 1: but its his right to bear arms isnt it? he had every right to hold that gun, fire that gun, he did the 'training' he got the 'background checks' he was only defending himself...... you want to take away his very right to defend himself?
Stranger 1: punishing him because all he wanted to do was protect himself?
Stranger 2: he wasn't defending himself, the man posed no threat
Stranger 2: you have the right to have a gun, no where in the Constitution does it say you have the right to shoot anyone you want with it
Stranger 1: what else are they supposed to do with their guns? hang it on the wall? how are you supposed to defend yourself with a gun without shooting it?
Stranger 2: you are suppose to use it to defend yourself
Stranger 2: the situation you described was not self defence
Stranger 1: I'm sure it'd pass in your courts when people can get away with using the "gay panic defense"
Stranger 2: if the man was unarmed, and the man was merely asking for food, it would not
Stranger 2: they have to pose a life threatening risk to you or others around you for it to be considered risk
Stranger 2: say a man his a knife, he's not a risk to you
Stranger 2: but say a man has a knife and kick in your front door, that shows he is violent, willing to commit a crime(breaking and entering) and has the means to do significant harm to you
Stranger 2: the latter situation would be considered self defense
Stranger 1: okay i was exaggerating a bit, but now I've forgotten what we were saying because I'm discussing politics with my other friend
Stranger 1: soo lets just agree Australia>USA
Stranger 2: let's not, a country in which you cannot defend yourself is no country i want to live in
Stranger 2: i will not be at the mercy of criminals
Stranger 1: we have our self defense it's called "grow some balls and beat the pricks up yourself!" and if that fails, we have the police and law on our side
Stranger 1: we dont need guns, when we have aussie strength
Stranger 2: sorry, im not the strongest man, and my fists cant defeat a man with a knife
Stranger 2: nor can the defeat bullets
Stranger 1: nor can a gun.....
Stranger 2: also, i live in a rural part of the country, if i was to dial 911 at the moment, it would easily take the county police over 10 minutes to get to my house
Stranger 2: my gun can easily stop a man with a knife
Stranger 2: and my gun will at least giving me a fighting chance against another man with a gun
Stranger 1: by shooting him? you would kill an innocent person?
Stranger 2: a man with a knife breaking into my home is not innocent
Stranger 2: a man robbing a gas station with a knife is not innocent
Stranger 1: what what if he needs that money to pay for that cast to mend his broken arm?
Stranger 2: the ends do not justify the means
Stranger 2: because you have a broken arm, doesn't allow you to break the law
Stranger 2: it doesn't allow you to possibly stab and take the cashier's life
Stranger 2: because she wouldn't give you the money
Stranger 1: they wouldn't need to if selfish people would just pay their taxes
Stranger 2: they didn't NEED to rob that gas station though, you are giving a violent criminal who committed a felony, armed robbery, excuses
Stranger 2: so if i need money to pay for my child's education it's okay for me to shoot up a bank and rob it?
Stranger 2: i NEEDED her education though, so that's okay in your book?
Stranger 1: noo but if you had free healthcare then that wouldnt need to happen?
Stranger 2: and if my daughter had free admission to Harvard, i wouldn't have robbed that bank
Stranger 1: why would people commit crime in the first place? its not for the fun, they probably need food that why they robbed your house...... they might need money thats why they mugged that guy in the alley
Stranger 1: exactly.. well who would need to commit crime when you're children can get into harvard for free?
Stranger 2: and so it's okay to go around mugging people if you need food now?\
Stranger 2: crime is okay if you need something?
Stranger 1: no but I'm saying crime wouldnt be needed if food and health care were readily available
Stranger 2: and if an alcoholic needs a bottle of booze, he can mug someone?
Stranger 2: no, you're giving the criminals excuses for committing violent crimes
Stranger 1: I'm not sure what they do in America but here they usually busk for money, or ask for money so they can buy one.... we dont need to pull out our guns and mug someone
Stranger 2: and they usually do that same here
Stranger 2: but then someone gets fed up and everyone saying no, he sees a little young lady with a purse over her shoulder, and decides to mug her for the easy cash
Stranger 2: and he goes to mug her
Stranger 2: but then that lady, was carrying a handgun in that purse, and was able to defend her own life from the violent alcoholic trying to mug her with a knife
Stranger 2: would you rather see the lady stabbed in this story or the mugger be shot?
Stranger 1: lady stabbed because she can be saved. if he's shot he could die
Stranger 2: so the 100% innocent lady deserves to be stabbed because the violent alcoholic decided to mug her?
Stranger 2: you're allowing evil to be perpetuated
Stranger 1: well he doesnt deserve to be killed
Stranger 2: he does, if he has the intention of stabbing an innocent woman
Stranger 1: oh! are you serious?
Stranger 1: no one deserves to be killed
Stranger 2: and that woman deserves to be stabbed and possibly bleed out for no reason?
Stranger 2: you would rather see a criminal, an alcoholic, stab a woman and killer her over a bottle of booze
Stranger 2: than for her to defend herself from that criminal?
Stranger 1: she shouldnt need to be stabbed, hopefully she's smart enough to just give up her purse, the stupid bitch and then she wouldnt be stabbed
Stranger 2: so now you're rewarding criminals? great
Stranger 1: he doesnt deserve to die!
Stranger 2: and neither does she!
Stranger 2: and lets say a man breaks into my house, and is prepared to steal all my valuables and rape my wife and daughter, does he deserve to die?
Stranger 1: no definitely not
Stranger 2: so you want to let rapists live and go free? cool
Stranger 1: he deserves to be locked away for life or at least for a very long time but not to die
Stranger 2: but you think he deserves to be able to rape my wife and my daughter?
Stranger 1: he doesnt deserve to be able to, but how can you prevent that? without knowing it was going to happen?
Stranger 2: by presenting my firearm, racking my shotgun and showing that i have the means and am prepared to defend my family
Stranger 2: if he continues? that was his choice
Stranger 1: lets say you were in australia were you have no guns, same situation...... what would you do?
Stranger 2: try to stop him, punch? kick? try to fight him
Stranger 2: and then he has a knife and stabs me
Stranger 1: who said he had a knife?
Stranger 2: i bleed out and die, my family raped, all because i didn't have the ability or the tools to defend us
Stranger 2: who said he didn't?
Stranger 1: you did.....
Stranger 2: i never specified what weapon he had
Stranger 1: well if you cant defend yourself against someone who has a measly knife, I think you need to take karate classes or something
Stranger 1: come on
Stranger 2: and if he has a gun?
Stranger 1: he never had any weapons beside malintent
Stranger 1: if you're willing to take his life to protect your family, why wouldn't you be willing to lay down your life to protect your family?
Stranger 2: i am
Stranger 1: so why would you not try to disarm him of his gun?
Stranger 2: because the chances of that working are slim to none
Stranger 2: and i will not sacrifice my life so that a criminal can life
Stranger 2: i wont take that risk
Stranger 1: so you'd rather let him rape your family than try to stop him?
Stranger 2: no, ill try to stop him, but that will be by way of my Remington 870 before i try to disarm him and take his gun
Stranger 1: whats a remington 870? a gun?
Stranger 2: a shotgun, yes
Stranger 1: firstly if we were in australia he probably wouldnt have a gun..... he might have a knife or a cricket bat or something but I highly doubt he'd have a gun
Stranger 2: okay and he comes in my house with a knife we'll say and i have my gun
Stranger 2: there's a thing called "threat assessment"
Stranger 2: if i see he has a knife, i will present my firearm, yell that i have a gun and tell him to leave now
Stranger 2: if he is unarmed, same situation
Stranger 1: if you happened to have a gun in an Australian home then I agree it'd be perfectly well for you to hold that unarmed gun up to him and 'threaten' him..... but never shoot, or kill!
Stranger 1: if you absolutely had to shoot it'd be in the foot, just to disable them
Stranger 2: and i never hope i have to shoot my guns in anger either
Stranger 1: I'm thinking now okay listen to my situation
Stranger 2: but if that man had a gun, im not going to shoot to wound, he has broken into my home showing that he is violent and he has a weapon that can easily kill me and my family
Stranger 1: I'm home right now, everyone is asleep.... if someone broke in, and wished to steal stuff. I'd sneak into the kitchen and grab a knife
Stranger 1: or go into the bathroom and pick up some deodorant to spray them in the face
Stranger 1: or firstly I'd call the police
Stranger 1: then arm myself
Stranger 2: yes, always call the police first, i'd do the same
Stranger 1: I dont need a gun and i'm only 16
Stranger 2: but then the guy sees you have a knife and he stabs you
Stranger 1: I'd make noise, my parents would wake up... the kids would hide in a bedroom and my parents would come out to protect me..... then the police should be there within a few minutes
Stranger 2: and then he stabs them too, what if he's a professional thief and he know how to use a knife well
Stranger 1: then thats too bad. I'd hope that I wouldnt die, and my parents would be okay and that he doesnt harm the children
Stranger 2: and if the exact same situation unfolded in my home
Stranger 2: he would have a gun pointed at him, and hopefully that would be enough to make him run away
Stranger 2: but if he runs at me and tries to stab me i will shoot, if he makes an attempt to take my life or my families lives, i will shoot.
Stranger 1: I still dont believe guns are the solution.....
Stranger 1: look at what our convo has turned into
Stranger 1: it went from
Stranger 1: OBAMA 2008-infinity
Stranger 1: and we're still talking about guns
Stranger 2: wanna know why? because you view a gun as something more than just a tool
Stranger 2: it's nothing more than a pile of plastic, wood and metal
Stranger 1: money is nothing more than paper, but yet it dictates your entire life
Stranger 2: you have attributed that only bad things can come out of a gun, when in all actuality, it can make a person and a family much safer
Stranger 1: thats bullshit
Stranger 1: you sound like some white, male, christian, republican
Stranger 2: white and male, yes
Stranger 1: would i be right in saying that?
Stranger 2: you missed on the second half
Stranger 1: jewish? mormon?
Stranger 2: neither
Stranger 1: muslim?
Stranger 2: nope
Stranger 1: hindu?
Stranger 2: and nope
Stranger 1: agnostic?
Stranger 1: atheist?
Stranger 2: im a Deist, i believe there is a God, not much more than that though
Stranger 2: to put it simply
Stranger 1: male, white, deist, voted for the Gun Party or whatever its called in America?
Stranger 2: there is no Gun Party
Stranger 1: which political party do you align with then?
Stranger 2: im an independent, i vote for who i see will be the most beneficial to this country
Stranger 1: sooo not Obama in your opinion?
Stranger 2: Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, ive voted for about every party
Stranger 2: but if you're asking, No, i did not vote for Obama
Stranger 1: ohhh you voted for that other guy? what was his name?
Stranger 1: MITT ROMENY?!
Stranger 2: again no, you're assuming that's there's only 2 parties in the USA
Stranger 1: anti-abortion, anti-marriage equality......
Stranger 1: who elsse are there?
Stranger 1: democrats, republican morons
Stranger 2: there was 5 canidates
Stranger 1: who else?
Stranger 2: i voted for who i felt reflected my beliefs the most during that campaign
Stranger 2: which was Gary Johnson
Stranger 2: i knew he wouldn't win, but i still voted for who i believed in
Stranger 1: thats good that you stuck to your beliefs :)
Stranger 2: yup :) the people that don't are the reason we have a 2 party system
Stranger 2: they think "oh well i have to vote for Romney cuz i hate Obama"
Stranger 2: and that mentality in why we only have Democrats and Republicans
Stranger 1: can I just say you probs didnt hear about it because America doesnt care about the rest of the world's affairs
Stranger 1: but tonight out Prime Minister changed
Stranger 1: they turned around and stabbed her in the back and now we have a new Prime Minister
Stranger 2: oh wow, yeah the media in the US just refuses to cover anything outside America
Stranger 1: i swear for 3 months we heard about the Boston Bombings, yet I doubt you would be able to name our Prime Minister, well out ex-Prime Minister
Stranger 2: i don't lol, i actually try to pay attention though, like i know the Prime minister of England, and Germany
Stranger 1: I dont know the German PM's name, I know she's a woman.... and I dont know the one of England..... I forget his name if you told me I'd remember but I cant think of it
Stranger 2: yeah, see even Australia doesn't cover much outside their own country, with the exception of the US lol
Stranger 2: like every country know whats goin on in America, but if you asked an English person what was happening in Australia, they'd have no idea
Stranger 1: yeah hahaha its sad, I usually read al jazeera for news about the world
Stranger 1: but i only read about the things I care about
Stranger 1: I could tell you some countries which have legalizeed same sex marriage
Stranger 1: which ones are considering it
Stranger 2 has disconnected