11:01 PM - Matoking: Hey
11:01 PM - Yossarian: Hi
11:02 PM - Matoking: What's your take on that strike Israel did a day or so ago
11:02 PM - Matoking: if you don't mind me asking
11:02 PM - Yossarian: "That strike"
11:02 PM - Matoking: Well, they shot flechette shells and those ended up killing Palestinian civilians :/
11:04 PM - Yossarian: You do know that ever since Hamas started firing rockets, Israel did their best to bomb the rocket launchers and launching sites, which are smack down in the middle of heavily populated areas, trying really hard to avoid hitting civillians to the point of air dropping pamphlets of when they will attack and urges the palestinians to flee to safety?
11:04 PM - Yossarian: *Israel are doing their best
11:05 PM - Matoking: Well I'm not convinced
11:05 PM - Yossarian: Whatever you may think, it boils down to one simple fact: Israel uses rockets to defend their civillians, the Hamas uses their civillians to defend their rockets
11:06 PM - Matoking: That's never so simple
11:06 PM - Matoking: The civilians might be forced to stay put
11:07 PM - Yossarian: They probably are
11:07 PM - Matoking: And putting destroying launching sites above avoiding civilian casualties is pure madness, if you ask me
11:07 PM - Yossarian: Thing is, you can't just let Hamas bombard Israel without any retaliation
11:08 PM - Matoking: It's always the Hamas, isn't it?
11:08 PM - Yossarian: They even started digging tunnels to kill everyone in the nearby towns
11:09 PM - Matoking: There might be a reincarnated Hitler in there, but if it's gonna lead to civilian casualties, you don't do it
11:09 PM - Matoking: Well, that's how I see it :/
11:09 PM - Yossarian: They put up charges on a fucking donkey and sent it to the IDF to expllode
11:09 PM - Yossarian: *explode
11:10 PM - Yossarian: They aim on Israeli civillians
11:10 PM - Yossarian: Israel aims at the Hamas rocket launchers
11:10 PM - Matoking: There have been next to none Israeli casualties compared to casualties on the other side
11:11 PM - Yossarian: Because Israel uses their missles to protect
11:11 PM - Yossarian: Not attac
11:11 PM - Yossarian: k
11:11 PM - Matoking: And if that's what they're trying to do, they've chosen a damn inaccurate way to destroy those launchers
11:11 PM - Yossarian: And quantifying deaths is a terrible thing. Every death is terrible
11:12 PM - Matoking: Which is why I find the deal with "we're bombing Hamas' structures and getting civilian casualties at the same point but that's understandable" disgusting
11:13 PM - Yossarian: Would you rather have a ground invasion into Gaza?
11:14 PM - Matoking: I'd rather have Israel not bombing sites where they're bound to have collateral damage
11:16 PM - Yossarian: So tell Hamas to move their rockets
11:16 PM - Yossarian: Or better yet
11:16 PM - Yossarian: Not fire any
11:16 PM - Yossarian: Have some godamn peace on this bloody land
11:19 PM - Yossarian: Btw, Rami might enjoy this sort of debate
11:19 PM - Yossarian: Though he will be a lot more fierce
11:19 PM - Yossarian: Since he's a right wing
11:19 PM - Matoking: Yeah, I've done that
11:19 PM - Matoking: I just find it nigh impossible to believe someone would rationalize these kinds of actions
11:19 PM - Matoking: Israel's got the Iron Dome
11:20 PM - Yossarian: You know that the people living near the Gaza strip can't really leave their shelters, right?
11:20 PM - Yossarian: They have ~10 seconds to get to it once they sound the alarm
11:20 PM - Yossarian: And the shrapnel from the rockets can kill people
11:21 PM - Yossarian: Which means they can't leave
11:21 PM - Yossarian: Not to mention that there are probably a few people that chose to stay near the rockets (suicide bombers-esque). A small minority, but still
11:22 PM - Yossarian: And to be honest, Bibi (our prime minister) HAS to bomb and do a groudn invasion (because of the tunnels which are a serious threat) because if he wouldn't, his career will die
11:22 PM - Yossarian: *ground
11:23 PM - Yossarian: And there's a 90% success rate on the Iron Dome
11:23 PM - Yossarian: It seems high, which lets people become apathetic until it actually hits
11:23 PM - Matoking: The Iron Dome was added in 2011
11:24 PM - Matoking: And the rockets and mortars have been flying since 2001
11:24 PM - Yossarian: Yes, it was created as a response
11:24 PM - Yossarian: Look, a defensive response
11:24 PM - Yossarian: The times before the Iron Dome were really, really bad for people living in the south
11:25 PM - Yossarian: Not to mention that there used to be suicide bombers and people planting bombs on buses
11:25 PM - Yossarian: It's pure terrorism
11:25 PM - Yossarian: To clarify: No suicide bombers and bombs planted on buses lately
11:26 PM - Matoking: As of July 2014, 28 people have been killed by rockets/mortars coming from Gaza
11:26 PM - Yossarian: Bibi has a lot, and I mean A LOT of pressure to completely eradicate the Hamas by any means
11:26 PM - Matoking: Do you support that?
11:27 PM - Yossarian: There are many racist and bigoted right wingers calling to just turn Gaza to a parking lot
11:27 PM - Yossarian: Hamas IS a terror organization, and I would like to see it gone, but flattening it out completely? No.
11:28 PM - Yossarian: By it I mean the Gaza strio]
11:28 PM - Yossarian: *strip
11:28 PM - Yossarian: Hell, Israel moved away from it, to let the palastinians have their own government
11:28 PM - Yossarian: Israel also supplies food, water and electricity
11:28 PM - Yossarian: Which the Hamas (after risign to power in a "democractic" election) are taking advantage of
11:29 PM - Yossarian: Which reminds me, they even managed to fire a rocket and hit a power cord, thus cutting 70 thousand plastinans from electricity
11:29 PM - Yossarian: And it's Israel's job to fix it
11:29 PM - Yossarian: Even though they cut it. And they can't, because it's a war zone
11:30 PM - Yossarian: The Hamas even broke a humanitarin cease fire agreement
11:30 PM - Yossarian: *humanitarian
11:30 PM - Matoking: Well, I don't see this conflict coming to an end unless the civilians in Gaza step up
11:30 PM - Yossarian: I'd love this conflict to end
11:30 PM - Yossarian: I'd love ALL confilcts to end
11:31 PM - Matoking: Killing them doesn't really help
11:32 PM - Yossarian: Killing the Hamas operatives?
11:32 PM - Matoking: Civilians
11:32 PM - Yossarian: Well obviously
11:32 PM - Yossarian: It's not intended
11:33 PM - Matoking: I'd be sure Israel would have more support if they would focus on defending their own civilians instead of trying to take out Hamas
11:35 PM - Yossarian: ...Uh, Iron Dome? Hello? That shit's expensive, and it needs it's own system for each area/city. Developing it was pretty absurd at ~2000 since it needed laser guided rockets to recalibrate at real time. Do you know how much that costs? Enough to buy a few jet planes and more tanks and bombs
11:36 PM - Yossarian: The technology was hardly there
11:36 PM - Yossarian: Back at 2000
11:36 PM - Yossarian: That's the sole reason for your "Many deaths in Gaza, less tahn 10 in Israel" argument
11:36 PM - Matoking: I think the international community would be far more likely to support it financially if they weren't doing this shit like this
11:36 PM - Yossarian: *than
11:38 PM - Yossarian: Well, the US is helping with the funding, and sitting silently and taking it all is 100% NOT a viable strategy. Other countries would have flattened the Gaza strip and possibly also the West Bank a LONG time ago.
11:38 PM - Matoking: [citation needed]
11:38 PM - Yossarian: One second
11:39 PM - Matoking: Besides, what proof is there that the Hamas store munitions or anything in the places that are being bombed
11:39 PM - Matoking: one of which is a hospital, out of all things
11:41 PM - Yossarian: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_missile_crisis
11:41 PM - Yossarian: The US didn't even let their neighboring country to get the rockets to fire
11:42 PM - Yossarian: Although these are nuclear bombs
11:42 PM - Yossarian: But the principle applies
11:42 PM - Matoking: That happened during the goddamn Cold War
11:43 PM - Yossarian: And? Israel is in constant threat, including but not limited to the Hamas, the Hezbollah, Iran, Syria
11:43 PM - Yossarian: Possibly also Lebanon
11:43 PM - Yossarian: Iran threatening with nuclear bombs
11:45 PM - Yossarian: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/07/13/israel-gaza-harper-hamas-human-shields_n_5582260.html
11:46 PM - Yossarian: Obviously, they can't report exactly how they find the rockets or where they are
11:46 PM - Yossarian: Because then Hamas will learn to cover their tracks
11:46 PM - Yossarian: Btw, have I been more fierce than Rami or less?
11:46 PM - Yossarian: Do you still have the logs from your debate with him?
11:47 PM - Matoking: No, it was a long time ago
11:48 PM - Yossarian: Damnit, was hoping to see stuff
11:48 PM - Yossarian: So who was more fierce?
11:48 PM - Matoking: Ehh, Rami I guess
11:48 PM - Yossarian: I'm a left wing, btw
11:49 PM - Matoking: This debate just reminded me why I tend to avoid this topic
11:49 PM - Yossarian: Yeah
11:49 PM - Yossarian: It's best to just spout some stuff about Peace and not get dragged to it unless both parties know their shit about the subject at hand and are willing to discuss it to extreme levels for a prolonged period of time
11:50 PM - Yossarian: I like peace