Hostgator: This past month I'm getting slammed with rejected emails accusing me of "spam"
I switched to Hostgator this spring ( see my previous post at https://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1764224 ) and it's been a lot better for my home based business, than my previous host here in the city.
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But we discussed this before, about their offers, when interacting with Support. ( I don't care for them, but Hostgator has been an improvement so...)
Anyway, suddenly this past month, I've been slammed with lots of rejected emails, calling my emails "spam". I don't spam - never have. I'm a Process Server and email my clients with file attachments and photos of people I serve for them - always have. So I'm getting lots of rejected posts, from Spamcop filtered clients, and today, MSN.
SO I contact Support at Hostgator again and say that I need these stopped. It's interfering with my business exchanges with clients, and hurting me.
The Support person's reply is that, they will check it out of course, but my email is done through their Control Panel, which doesn't go through business gateways, and I really should add ( $6 a month ) G Suite by Google, which will send my company emails through Google's gateways and not reject them as "spam".
Now either this is their marketing upsell hype, or is it true?
I'm guessing that once I'm on the hook for the $6, they will try to upsell me some more.
I told the agent that ( truth ) I'm 71 years old, and just trying to make ends meet ( so I don't have to live in a wood shack and eat dog food, on Social "Security" ). They replied OK, but think about it.
SO I'm thinking.
Are these sudden "spam" bounces being created by them, to upsell me?
It took an enormous amount of time and effort for me to get my site transferred to them, and I'll be disgusted if I have to move it all again, but...
hostgator is EIG now so you should'nt be with them in the first place.
What's EIG?...Oh ok.
https://www.reviewhell.com/blog/endu...p-eig-hosting/
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But as a small home business, where I don't know my way around web hosting, how can I do better and still get decent site hosting and support?
You should find a host which is taking care of their customers, look at the some reviews.
Good luck with finding one NOT EIG, right? ;-)
I just dread the whole process. It took me about 2 weeks to move everything to HG. I'm not savvy with the stuff, and had to keep contacting support.
What kind of control panel you are using? If it is cPanel, then it is easy to migrate. Your provider can definitely help you on this.
Now either this is their marketing upsell hype, or is it true?
G Suite is the best hosted email solution for most people, and other solutions are far behind in terms of spam detection and search. But not everyone needs G Suite. For most people, a good web hosting account is more than enough for their daily business communication.
It might also be true that they are trying to upsell the service.
A good host is one that takes care of every aspect of the server. Email deliverability is a big part of a web hosting business. But then they are not really among the hosting provider known to for hosting/email.
It seems email is a crucial part of your business. You might want to be with a provider who specializes in email deliverability, provides useful tools to protect against spam, IP blacklists which in turn increases email deliverability.
I'm guessing that once I'm on the hook for the $6, they will try to upsell me some more.
They are known for that, too.
Are these sudden "spam" bounces being created by them, to upsell me?
They have been accused of doing similar things in the past. But you won't find any proof.
Quote Originally Posted by MamaBear View Post
Good luck with finding one NOT EIG, right? ;-)
If you are searching on google, then most probably you don't know the right places to find a decent hosting.
But you are already on WHT. You won't find a better place to find a decent provider on the internet. Why not choose a decent provider who is active here?
What kind of control panel you are using? If it is cPanel, then it is easy to migrate. Your provider can definitely help you on this.
Yes, it's their plain old Cpanel. Thanks.
If you are searching on google, then most probably you don't know the right places to find a decent hosting.
But you are already on WHT. You won't find a better place to find a decent provider on the internet. Why not choose a decent provider who is active here?
I'm open minded, but my site is working very well with Hostgator. Moving to them, radically improved my business, over my previous provider.
I just need them to stop my outgoing emails from getting repeatedly marked as spam.
Hostgator just sent me this, today:
"Hello,
Thank you for contacting HostGator. We apologized for any inconvenience you have experienced, we understand your email issue and have reviewed your account to help. The reason is due to the email SPF records needing updating, we also have details and recommendations below.
As a pre check we tested and successfully sent and received email to your?*'Melissa@DenverProcessServers.net' webmail without error. We have a screenshot below:
https://snipboard.io/QB0Ej7.jpg
SPF Record Repaired:?*?*We also found that your SPF record wasn't fully configured yet, we updated it and tested the web mail successfully. These records are important because they help provide authentication between mail servers to prevent becoming flagged for spam. Here is additional info to assist:
https://www.hostgator.com/help/article/spf-records
Now that the SPF records are updated the email address should fall off any blacklists over time as well and your email should become fully functional.
Also, if you would like a more detailed, technical explanation we have greater details below.
The current server you're using is what we call a "shared server". Shared servers share resources among multiple users across the farm and this is what we called a "Shared environment". This would indicate resources would be shared such as emails,cpu and bandwidth are all combined within this shared environment that's shared among the users. Since the shared server has multiple users, a large volume of emails coming from the server can cause other providers to think the mail gateway sending the email could be considered spam. For more information the differences between a shared and dedicated environment, please reference the following article:..."
I don't understand what their test email to me, proves, when it was my outgoing email that was getting dinged as "spam", but they may have cleared up the issue now. I'll see.
Hostgator just sent me this, today:
"Hello,
Thank you for contacting HostGator. We apologized for any inconvenience you have experienced, we understand your email issue and have reviewed your account to help. The reason is due to the email SPF records needing updating, we also have details and recommendations below.
As a pre check we tested and successfully sent and received email to your?*'Melissa@DenverProcessServers.net' webmail without error. We have a screenshot below:
https://snipboard.io/QB0Ej7.jpg
SPF Record Repaired:?*?*We also found that your SPF record wasn't fully configured yet, we updated it and tested the web mail successfully. These records are important because they help provide authentication between mail servers to prevent becoming flagged for spam. Here is additional info to assist:
https://www.hostgator.com/help/article/spf-records
Now that the SPF records are updated the email address should fall off any blacklists over time as well and your email should become fully functional.
Also, if you would like a more detailed, technical explanation we have greater details below.
The current server you're using is what we call a "shared server". Shared servers share resources among multiple users across the farm and this is what we called a "Shared environment". This would indicate resources would be shared such as emails,cpu and bandwidth are all combined within this shared environment that's shared among the users. Since the shared server has multiple users, a large volume of emails coming from the server can cause other providers to think the mail gateway sending the email could be considered spam. For more information the differences between a shared and dedicated environment, please reference the following article:..."
I don't understand what their test email to me, proves, when it was my outgoing email that was getting dinged as "spam", but they may have cleared up the issue now. I'll see.
Sorry for the double reply - it was an accident. Can someone please delete #10 in this thread, so there's only one?
Rest assured the situation you are facing is nothing new, and many past WebHostingTalk users have encountered similar issues before with email delivery either being delivered to the recipient's spam folder or getting outright rejected (as in your case).
I like to treat email delivery as an equation, and an "artistic" one at that because every provider will claim they have a solution of some sort, but some providers are going to handle it better than the other because they are simply more knowledgeable on the subject.
In your case, it is clear HostGator has dropped the ball on you as they are misdiagnosing your issue and providing a solution to a completely different part of the equation.
For example, in your first post in this thread, you mentioned "SpamCop" and "MSN" as part of the reasons for rejecting emails and this would clearly indicate an IP related block (i.e. their mail server's IP Address is being blacklisted by both SpamCop and Microsoft) so this has nothing to do with SPF/DKIM entries and their setting up of a SPF record for you isn't going to solve anything. The correct solution here would have been for them to request a delist from both SpamCop and Microsoft. It is also inappropriate that they are testing whether you could receive emails, when you had indicated the issue was regarding email delivery - that is in a different direction altogether.
While it isn't entirely wrong that they mentioned email services on shared hosting environment have some limitations, the fact remains that getting their IP Address listed on SpamCop (one of the largest RBLs) and Microsoft (one of the largest email providers) is indicative their servers are improperly managed (i.e. spam are being transmitted by other users and they are not stopping it at their root).
Based on your description I don't think you need to upgrade to Google Suite - to clarify, Google Suite does help but it is really targeted at Enterprises who need the <1% higher email delivery rate as compared to email services on a proper shared hosting server - in this case I feel it would be more economical for you to look for a new hosting provider who actually proactively monitors their servers and has a decent reputation.
So is there a list on this board, of non-EIG hosts, with some good ones who would work with my lack of knowledge of all this, and get me a reliable hosting provider?
A couple of other things that I'm wondering about. I think, at one point, one of their support people asked if I sent a lot of attachments or a lot of images on my emails, because that could trigger these spam filters. I replied that, of COURSE I do. I'm a Process Server. I send my clients Affidavits of Service ALL the time, and often photos of the property where I'm trying to serve someone. But that sounds like a bogus issue. If people were filtered and blacklisted for those things, MOST people would be.
The only other thing that might be of concern, is that my email sig has grown a bit long, as I've gotten far more experienced and wanted to tell potential clients, or clients about it, in my sig. It's 11 lines lately. But again, if things like that tripped people up, a lot more of us would be blacklisted for it? Does it sound like them making excuses for the things you mentioned above? Not running their own system right?
The main issue is likely the spamcop listing mentioned. And if their server IP is on spamcop, it is likely on others blacklists as well as mail server reputation sites like senderscore and senderbase. Head over to https://mxtoolbox.com/ and use their tools to look up your MX records and then do a blacklist check on those records to find other lists they may be on. The main page of that site can be used to lookup the records and then on the results page will be a link to check blacklist .
Secondary issues could be just content that is sent. A 11 line signature could hit filter rules depending on the words and if they hit any keywords as well as the ratio of content to signature . Another item is using formatted / html emails with limited actual content.
As for attachments, are you only sending attachments with like "Please see attachment" as the only message content or like a message of a few paragraphs? The less content, the higher the ranking and more likely to be tagged as spam. What file type are the attachments? It might be possible that .doc, .docx, and perhaps .zip rank a bit higher in filters due to spammers sending those types of files in attempts to exploit holes in the programs that use those files. (the .docs could have embedded scripts in them that could then infect your computer. .zips had a exploit that would cause the archive to expand to other folders and overwrite important system files.
As for finding a new host that isn't EIG, the shared hosting offers forum will be filled with such hosts . You will need to look through the offers to find the one that matches your requirements. Keep an eye out for hosts that filter outbound mail using an appliance like spamexperts or a service such as mailchannels as those will cut down on blacklists greatly as well as provide multiple IPs to be used.
And lastly, since email is important to you, using a host that specializes in email might be better. For example, you could move to g suites, MS mail services, or a host of other hosts and if you want keep your site with hostgator. In such a setup, all you need to do is change the MX records for your domain's DNS records to that mail providers records.
The main issue is likely the spamcop listing mentioned. And if their server IP is on spamcop, it is likely on others blacklists as well as mail server reputation sites like senderscore and senderbase. Head over to https://mxtoolbox.com/ and use their tools to look up your MX records and then do a blacklist check on those records to find other lists they may be on. The main page of that site can be used to lookup the records and then on the results page will be a link to check blacklist.
Yeah, I'd THINK that a company as HUGE as Hostgator would be ALL OVER THAT.
Secondary issues could be just content that is sent. A 11 line signature could hit filter rules depending on the words and if they hit any keywords as well as the ratio of content to signature . Another item is using formatted / html emails with limited actual content.
I've been using the 11 line sig because I've been doing this work since 2006 and have built up some serious credentials and credibility that I want people to know about. Just don't want to get harassed by spam filters for it. And I was using html email, for things like bolding text, which it sounds like they don't like either.
As for attachments, are you only sending attachments with like "Please see attachment" as the only message content or like a message of a few paragraphs?
More like:
Here's the PDF of my Affidavit of Service ( attached ).
Please check carefully & let me know if it's fine, and then
I'll put the original in the mail.
Thanks!
and then my 11 line sig.
The less content, the higher the ranking and more likely to be tagged as spam.
What file type are the attachments? It might be possible that .doc, .docx, and perhaps .zip rank a bit higher in filters due to spammers sending those types of files in attempts to exploit holes in the programs that use those files. (the .docs could have embedded scripts in them that could then infect your computer. .zips had a exploit that would cause the archive to expand to other folders and overwrite important system files.
Almost always PDF.
As for finding a new host that isn't EIG, the shared hosting offers forum will be filled with such hosts . You will need to look through the offers to find the one that matches your requirements. Keep an eye out for hosts that filter outbound mail using an appliance like spamexperts or a service such as mailchannels as those will cut down on blacklists greatly as well as provide multiple IPs to be used.
I wish I could get some kind of system that would score my posts on MY end, and tip me off if there's something I need to change. This stuff is getting as crazy as trying to send an email out of North Korea.
And lastly, since email is important to you, using a host that specializes in email might be better. For example, you could move to g suites, MS mail services, or a host of other hosts and if you want keep your site with hostgator. In such a setup, all you need to do is change the MX records for your domain's DNS records to that mail providers records.
Well both things are important to me, my website AND emails. With my previous small local provider that I'd been using since the 90's, they mentioned to me a couple of years ago, that my site was on a back server somewhere. In 2016 we were doing a great amount of business, and then it slowly declined, until, early this year, it was as if someone had turned off a faucet on our business, and we were teetering on going out of business. And we had no idea why. So I decided to move to Hostgator. Within 2 weeks of getting the site up, the phones started ringing again, and the emails started coming it. We did great for awhile, and then when this spam stuff started happening, and it's starting to seem like the faucet got turned off on our business again. And I can never tell why. It makes me crazy.
And I don't know if it's related to these spam filters, or something the host sites are doing, or what, but we sure like it when the faucet gets turned on. We're a small home based business here, and it makes all the difference in whether we can keep paying the bills.
Using a separate email service, not depending on the hosting provider has several benefits:
- Easier website migration (no worrying about moving the emails as well).
- Emails not taking the server space, not taking the space (and time) when creating, or restoring from backups.
- Less server space taken, since emails have their own.
- Emails can be backed up separately.
Con is it's usually not free.
I use MXroute, connected with the free gmail (so its used as email sending/receiving client, as well as for storage).
They are still offering "Lifetime" offers (I went with that) - 85$ - https://blog.mxroute.com/2019/07/lifetime
Downside is they don't offer a lot of technical support "hand holding". If you need a lot of help setting it up, I'd suggest going with the Gsuite, or MS Exchange.
I'd also suggest changing the hosting company. While I understand running a business is very hard and prefer not "bashing" hosting companies publicly, EIG owned hosts are an exception, with a very good reason.
Veerotech, to name one, is reasonably priced, with quite good technical support.
HostMantis - a bit cheaper, but a bit less "hand holding" technical support (I personally have no complaints must say).
Or some third, after doing some research. In addition to asking on this forum, this is a good place to start:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/web-...web-hosts.html
Googling "best hosting providers" and similar usually ends up with the first 100 results being suspicious (paid for) reviews, not really objective.
bikegremlin,
Thanks, but we need to keep things simple, and keep the email with the domain host. And no, I don't know how to do everything myself.
Hostgator isn't trying to upsell you anything. They can't do that in this fashion. Hell, they'd make nothing on it if they did.
The reason the mail is marked as spam is going to vary from provider to provider. Here's a few tips to prevent this from happening in the future (though honestly, there is no sure fire way to prevent this)
#1: use DKIM to ensure proper delivery of mail
#2: Use SPF records (looks like they fixed this) for mail
#3: NEVER rely on php mail() or software's mail() system. ALWAYS use SMTP to send mail. This WILL be looked at and evaluated by the receiving server
#4: Keep yourself out of blacklists. This is hard to do with dime a dozen shared hosting companies, which is why:
#5: Use professional mailing companies (Microsoft, gmail) to ensure delivery for those must have emails
Given that Hostgator is EIG and really should be ignored, you need to focus on #5. If website works, great, but email is an important part of website working. You need to fix that by going the gmail or outlook route.
Hostgator isn't trying to upsell you anything. They can't do that in this fashion. Hell, they'd make nothing on it if they did.
The reason the mail is marked as spam is going to vary from provider to provider. Here's a few tips to prevent this from happening in the future (though honestly, there is no sure fire way to prevent this)
#1: use DKIM to ensure proper delivery of mail
Just had to Google it - never heard of it. I'm not a big organization - just a home based business, so I don't have an IT staff to implement this?
#2: Use SPF records (looks like they fixed this) for mail
#3: NEVER rely on php mail() or software's mail() system. ALWAYS use SMTP to send mail. This WILL be looked at and evaluated by the receiving server
I've always used SMTP.
#4: Keep yourself out of blacklists. This is hard to do with dime a dozen shared hosting companies, which is why:
#5: Use professional mailing companies (Microsoft, gmail) to ensure delivery for those must have emails
Not sure what the cost of that is, or the work for me.
Given that Hostgator is EIG and really should be ignored, you need to focus on #5. If website works, great, but email is an important part of website working. You need to fix that by going the gmail or outlook route.
My email is part of my domain. In my profession, a gmail address would be seen as "unprofessional" and lose me a LOT of business.
Great advice by whmcsguru as it appears you're not leaving Hostgator. Email is the issue, so remove that from the Hostgator side of the equation. Gmail is a viable answer.
My email is part of my domain. In my profession, a gmail address would be seen as "unprofessional" and lose me a LOT of business.
I didn't say use a gmail domain. Pay the $6/month for Gsuite. Use your own domain, your own email address, but use google's services
