DESTINY: Alright, what do ya got? What's up?
VAUSH: Are you not going to get banned for this?
DESTINY: Nah, I got it muted.
VAUSH: Alright.
DESTINY: I just get triggered as fuck when lefties talk about finance; it triggers the fuck out of me, so you triggered me enough to bring me on. What's up?
VAUSH: Wonderful. Do you have any contentions with what you've heard?
DESTINY: I haven't listened to anything. But I imagine it's some real dumb shit, so catch me up.
VAUSH: Whoa, that's very uncharitable of you, very much like the video that I just had the displeasure of watching.
DESTINY: Nice. Alright, well hit me up. What do you got?
VAUSH: Yeah, your arguments here are completely untenable. I have-
DESTINY: I know my arguments.
VAUSH: -and I say this sincerely, you probably don't believe me, never heard anyone say "no poor people can move," only that there are substantial institutional barriers, and that people who make bootstrap-y individualist arguments, as you have here, about how it's financial-
DESTINY: Nobody's making bootstrap-y individual arguments. So all I'm saying is that one of the biggest ways you can control your budget is to control the place you live in and that sometimes, if you're a poor person, sometimes moving to a different area can be a good way, managing your budget. That's all I'm saying. Is there anything there that you disagree with?
VAUSH: Yeah, that sometimes the costs associated with moving are substantial and they can prevent people from moving, especially if you're disabled or have a family.
DESTINY: Okay.
VAUSH: Yeah, substantially so. You do realize the entire video that I have just watched-of yours, is a screed of arguments you would have argued against two years ago? Some of these arguments are riddled with survivorship bias, some of them sound very similar to arguments Sargon made-
DESTINY: No, hold on, whoa, whoa, whoa, you're going way overboard. So if you're like a fucking disabled war veteran with a family of 27 or whatever, and you-
VAUSH: Nope, no, no, no, no, no. If you're one of the many Americans who lives paycheck-to-paycheck or can't afford a $300 emergency, not if you're a disabled war veteran with 87 children, whose both legs are broken.
DESTINY: If you can't afford anything in your life, how are you affording your current rent?
VAUSH: What? Because moving is an additional cost, 'cause you added to the existing cost.
DESTINY: Not that much, and you'd be saving money after moving. You'd move to someplace cheaper.
VAUSH: For one, I don't know what your experience has been moving around when you're poor, but usually moving to a place that is so cheaper that it is very quickly outpacing the initial expense of moving, means you're going to be moving very, very, very much farther from places where you can find work, or places where you already have inroads. If you have children this becomes infinitely har-
DESTINY: Unemployment right now in the United States is the lowest it's ever been in the history of the whole world. If you can't find a job at 3.5% unemployment-
VAUSH: Right, you should kill yourself. Yeah, I know.
DESTINY: Probably, yeah, you're probably not gonna make it anywhere. So-
VAUSH: Yeah, exactly. And this is-
DESTINY: So-so, wait, wait, wait, wait.
VAUSH: Oh, please.
DESTINY: So let's immediately drop the argument you can't find work. That's a bullshit claim. You can find work.
VAUSH: Wait, what? You do- wait, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait, the unemployment being low doesn't mean you can just instantly find a fucking job when you move.
VAUSH: You would say this, the opportunity cost of moving is substantial! It's not just the first and last month you put down a deposit.
DESTINY: Firstly, you don't have to- whoa, whoa, whoa! You don't have to- Firstly- firstly- Okay, let me know when you're done with your college student world. Are you done?
VAUSH: What the fuck do you- you don't know! Destiny, you don't know anything about me!
DESTINY: Firstly, you can find- I know more than you, mister mom and dad paid- mister Mommy and Daddy paid for your school! I promise you I know more than you about this, okay?
VAUSH: Then respond to the fucking arguments rather than characterizing what I have to say!
DESTINY: Believe it or not, believe it or- yeah, let me respond to the arguments! So number one-
VAUSH: The first and last month's rent, deposit, the actual cost of moving, the opportunity cost of leaving your job, these are huge institutional barriers that you don't give a fuck about! Because you're so triggered by the left!
DESTINY: First of all, first of all, first of all, [inaudible], oh my god! You gotta scream your lefty shit. Scream your lefty dumb shit. Let me know when you're fucking done.
VAUSH: What argument have I made that's leftist? This is social democracy!
DESTINY: So first of all, if you want- okay, so firstly, okay, it's one month's deposit is what you have to come up with, okay? Sure.
VAUSH: Many places require two months' deposit.
DESTINY: If they require two months' deposit, and you pay two months' deposit on your last house, that means that your last month of rent is fucking free! So you need to come up with one month's deposit!
VAUSH: Nope! Because renters will often do everything they can to squeeze you out of whatever deposit you put in the beginning. They will actively do everything in their power...
DESTINY: No, no! [indistinct 03:33] Are you talking first and last in deposit, or are you talking just the deposit? What are you talking about now, Vaush? 'Cause now you're conflating your terms. Are you talking the first mon-
VAUSH: The deposit that you put in at the beginning. The security deposit that gets taken from whenever you do damage to the apartment.
DESTINY: So you're not talking about first month and last month. You're not talking about first and last month, you're just talking about just the deposit.
VAUSH: The deposit is the cost of the-
DESTINY: Okay, cool, okay, you don't know any about this. That's fine. So you need to come up with a new deposit
VAUSH: What? You put down the first month's rent, and you put in the month's rent for the deposit.
DESTINY: Sure. So you- wait, it's not always a month's rent in deposit. Sure. But you- you- oh my god!
VAUSH: And that segment usually gets taken out in large part by the renters- Why are you so fucking mad, dude? These are all arguments you would have made against Sargon two years ago!
DESTINY: [sigh] No, it's actually the same arguments that I've always made. As I've said, one of the things that worries me about when I talk about systemic or structural things is that there will always be clueless, dumbfuck college kids like you, who think that a poor person-
VAUSH: You haven't made a single counter-argument to my point. I know you're really fucking mad that you're getting talked down to by one of your previous chatters, but if you could address the arguments I'm making...
DESTINY: You are literally- Let me know when I can finish a single sentence, alright? Let me know when I can finish one sentence, Hasan. Holy shit. Oh, let me know- Are you done? Can I actually finish a fucking sentence?
VAUSH: Is it a point?
DESTINY: Oh, cool! Okay, yeah! So, just because there are systemic or structural barriers in front of you doesn't mean that you are literally a handicapped, mindless fucking retard that cannot do anything in life! So every single-
VAUSH: No one's saying that! Why is everything out of your mouth a strawman?
DESTINY: Let me know- Let me know when you're done.
VAUSH: Why is everything a strawman? I'm sorry, I thought that we can interrupt you any time I took contention with one of your points. Is that not something you like to say at the beginning of debates?
DESTINY: So do you think that it's literally impossible for every poor person to move-
VAUSH: Nobody believes that!
DESTINY: Okay, so you have to come up with a deposit. Sure. That's one thing you have to do. One. You said, "Just find a new job after you move." Obviously, you fucking moron, you would find a job before fucking moving! You can comprehend that, right? You know that's a possible thing you can do.
VAUSH: Most people can't afford a $300 emergency. I'm aware of the fact that it is possible to move. Nobody is arguing against that, only that it is very difficult, there are systemic barriers which prevent people from doing this easily, and in some areas it is not possible to find a cheaper apartment within that city unless you are willing to literally go into, like, skid row area, which can be a danger posed for a lot of people. If you have kids all of these issues are multiplied exponentially. Moving-
DESTINY: No one here is saying it's not hard to move. All I said was that-
VAUSH: Nobody's saying it's impossible to move, Destiny! Why do you keep arguing against a strawman?
DESTINY: Then what are your contentions with what I've said? All I've said is that moving sometimes is a really good way to reduce your budget! Oftentimes-
VAUSH: No, your video- We just went over your fucking video, dude. It was riddled not only with open contempt for the poor, but individualist arguments.
DESTINY: "Open contempt for the poor"? Okay, Captain fucking condescension! Okay-
VAUSH: "Kill yourself if you're unemployed"? "Kill yourself if you're unemployed"? I've never said "kill yourself if you own a business."
DESTINY: I'm saying that if you're using the excuse that it's impossible to find a new job in a market where the unemployment is the lowest it ever has been-
VAUSH: Nobody is saying- Why do you keep saying impossible?! Why do you keep doing that?
DESTINY: Because you're the one saying, "You can't find a new job!"
VAUSH: No, I said it's difficult! I'm pretty sure I've been clear with my language.
DESTINY: How is it difficult?! It's easier now than it ever has been in the history of the United States, Vaush! What does difficult mean to you?!
VAUSH: Those are two unrelated points. Whether or not it's easy-
DESTINY: How is the unemployment unrelated to how easy it is to find employment?!
VAUSH: Whether or not it is easier now doesn't mean it's suddenly easy to get a job. Circumstances vary depending on where you live. I thought you would be aware of that. It depends on what city you're in-
DESTINY: I am aware of that, because I've actually looked for fucking jobs that aren't just doing fucking YouTube commentary before! And I've seen other poor people look for jobs that aren't just being a fucking video game streamer!
VAUSH: What do you think I did before doing YouTube?
DESTINY: What?
VAUSH: You started doing streaming younger than I started doing streaming. Why are you talking down to me with my real-life job experience?
DESTINY: Yes, I started younger than you because I had to quit school because Mommy and Daddy didn't pay for my education, 'cause I worked through my entire fucking college!
VAUSH: I worked for two years before school so I could pay my way through it, and I worked during school! I'm pretty sure I've had more jobs than you before getting into streaming. Why are you so insistent on attacking my character?
DESTINY: How did you find those jobs, though? How did you find those jobs? I thought it was so- And you found them with no college degree? How did you find those jobs, Vaush?
VAUSH: Well one of them, I was nearly homeless because there were literally no jobs in the small college town that I was in. I didn't have any way to get to the-
DESTINY: What town did you live in?
VAUSH: Arcata, California. I had a very hard time finding jobs there. I searched for six months-
DESTINY: I'm sorry, hold on, when you say "Arcata", just so I can understand, you're talking about Arcadia?
VAUSH: No, Arcata, California. It's in northern California.
DESTINY: Is that a different pla- Oh, okay.
VAUSH: Yeah, and I had a really hard time finding a job there. Now there were jobs in adjacent cities, but the public transport there was really, really bad so I kept looking for stuff nearby. Now could I have moved? I'm sure I could have dredged something up from my parents' bank account, if I really wanted to. I got very, very lucky, because some folks liked me on YouTube, I guess, thanks to your community for giving me that kick start. But man, oh man, dude. Nobody is saying it's impossible.
DESTINY: So then what is the option if you live in a place that's too expensive for you? What should you do then, Vaush? Should you just fucking keel over and fucking die? Can you tell me what a person like that should do?
VAUSH: I think it depends on their circumstances, and I think it's my responsibility as a public- And I think it's-
DESTINY: So give me- walk me through some options. Walk me through some options. What should you do if the place you live in is too expensive for you to afford, Vaush? Tell me
VAUSH: Let me finish this point.
DESTINY: Okay.
VAUSH: I think the circumstances depend massively on what area-
DESTINY: So you're not gonna give me an answer.
VAUSH: No, I am g- holy shit, dude!
DESTINY: Okay, just curious! 'Cause I can give you a million fucking answers 'cause I'm not a fucking moron!
VAUSH: I'm sure we both can- Why are you so intent on speaking down to me? I'm trying to! What I'm trying to say, though, and I think this is very important, is that as a public figure, admittedly not as big as you, you know, but I try. I think I should be-
DESTINY: Oh my god, the- Just, can I go get a drink? And then you can come back when you tell me, "it's my responsibility to talk about policy, blah blah blah." I'm just asking you what should a poor person do if they're in a place they can't afford? I don't need you to give me your fucking spiel about bullshit, whatever, talking to your audience or whatever. By the way, none of which are probably fucking homeless and poor if they're watching a guy talk about fucking politics on the internet. So I'm curious. Tell me what you should do: you live in a place you can't afford!
VAUSH: Would you like to get back to League? 'Cause I have a feeling you're not really interested in talking to me.
DESTINY: No, I just wanna hear the answer to that without you going on some fucking diatribe about blah blah blah blah blah! I'm just curious! If somebody lives in a place they can't afford, what options are before them?
VAUSH: There are a wide variety of options; one of them, obviously, is moving. I don't disagree with that.
DESTINY: Wha-ha- [smack] We agree then! I'm so glad we had this talk! Is there anything that we disagree on?
[beat]
VAUSH: That was the video that I just watched?
DESTINY: Yeah! That was the whole point of what I said! I said one of the most-
VAUSH: That people can move?
DESTINY: One of the largest expenses you have as a person, two things: you have a car and a house! Sometimes people buy cars that are too expensive! Sometimes people live in places that are too expensive, and moving can be a really good way of controlling costs. That was my whole fucking argument! Not that every single fucking poor problem in the US can be solved by people simply moving across the fucking country!
VAUSH: I just watched your video. Again, no one disagrees that moving can be done by poor people and isn't sometimes a good idea. Nobody disagrees with this.
DESTINY: Then what do we disagree on?
VAUSH: Do you want to go over the video minute-by-minute, and I can tell you every single thing-
DESTINY: Sure, go ahead and hit me up with some claims. I understand if you haven't written them all down; if you need to review something, that's fine. But sure, I'd love to talk fucking finance. So go, hit me up with some claims I made that you disagree with so much.
VAUSH: Sure, yeah, okay. So, the first claim that I would like to make, and I think you would agree with as a consequen- we're still consequentialists here, right? We're still fond of it?
DESTINY: Yep, rule utilitarian, that flavor of consequentialism is my favorite. Yes, what have you got?
VAUSH: Yeah, I've been borne in on the act utilitarianism for some philosophy [indistinct 10:17], but okay. We can share it, okay? So, as somebody with public outreach, I usually find, and I think you would agree with this under most circumstances, that when we're dealing with an issue like systemic poverty or the difficulties faced by poor people when it comes to moving or differences in availability of jobs in certain regions, it's more important for us, I think this is important, again, to not go on a screed about how you should kill yourself if you haven't found a job and how everyone who disagrees with you is a socialist, LARPer, tankie college student, but rather to address the institutional barriers in a way that actually could, you know, meaningfully change something or bring up topics that might lead people to action in the future. Most of the video that I just watched was you directly impugning the intelligence and moral worth of people who find themselves in situations where they have trouble paying rent or can't move or something.
DESTINY: Okay, there are two parts to every discussion that we have: there are systems that we can analyze, but at the end of the day there are individuals that live in those systems that you also have to give advice to. And guess what? The advice that you give in these two different realms are going to be exactly contradictory to one another. If I had a daughter that was going through school, and she was like, "Man, you know, like, I feel like I'm fucked because everybody in my class doesn't think I belong there," do you think that I'm gonna say, "Oh, well, that's very true. You see, the system of education can oftentimes be slanted against you, and sometimes job markets will push you out, so just accept that and roll over and die!" Of course not! You say, "Hey, there are shitty things in life that you have to deal with, make the best of it! This is how you deal with it!" You can give personal advice to somebody, or give advice even to an audience at large, while also acknowledging on a systemic or structural level, this thing is fucked against you. If you're poor in the United States, there's a million things that are more difficult for you. That doesn't mean you just tell everyone to roll over, die and wait for Bernie Sanders to become president and fix them all with some top-down policy! There is some real advice you can give-
VAUSH: Well, you actually did advocate for people to kill themselves, so technically- [laughter]
DESTINY: The only time I said that was when somebody said it was impossible to f- ah ha ha ha ha, oh-
VAUSH: Wait, dude, wait, wait, I sincerely want to know-
DESTINY: 'Cause we know mister bomb-Israel-to-death, we all know [indistinct 12:18] speaks in hyperbole, who's literally banned from Twitch right now for suggesting that we bomb Israel! Okay! Obviously I was being a bit hyperbolic, but when you're countering me-
VAUSH: That's why I was laughing...
DESTINY: -with "it's hard to find a job" when we are literally at the lowest levels of unemployment that have ever existed in the history of the United States, the U-3 and U-6 unemployment are lower than they ever have been, it is possible to find a job. It is absolutely possible.
VAUSH: Okay, so you ran off a little bit there-
DESTINY: And if one of the ways you can control [indistinct 12:38] is by renting a cheaper place-
VAUSH: You ran off really, really far there.
DESTINY: Okay, yeah, go for it. Yep, you're right. Go for it.
VAUSH: I have to say, I do wish- Do you remember when we used to speak in good faith? I haven't really changed my policies, positions, or rhetoric since we spoke amicably to each other two years ago.
DESTINY: That's great, but I hate lefties now. I hope they all get fucking banned, after this new c- because it's the new counterculture. The new Jordan Petersons and Ben Shit-piros on the internet are the Kyle Kulinskis and the Hasans and all the other braindead fucking LARPing socialist dipshits that come on here and pretend to talk about economics or finance and don't know anything about any of this and it drives me fucking crazy to listen to! Like this idea that if you're poor, it's impossible to move! It's so fucking stupid!
VAUSH: I have never heard anyone say that in my life.
DESTINY: Of course not, because at the end of the day you hide behind irony and hyperbole and whatever random Twitter [indistinct 13:18]-
VAUSH: Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you- wait, wrong person to talk to. I literally am very upfront about everything. I don't dogwhistle, I don't hide behind irony.
DESTINY: Okay, then let's go- Sure, then let's go back to the exact thing I said. Do you disa-
VAUSH: You realize you sound like an anti-SJW, right? Like back in the 2014 era?
DESTINY: Do you agree- Do you- I am the only SJW left on the internet because all of you fucking morons left intersectionality behind for class consciousness. It's very lonely over here right now.
VAUSH: Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! Whoa, whoa- I have literally done videos on the importance of abandoning class reductionism and how intersectionality is a- Why are you making these arguments against me?
DESTINY: You know what? Hold on, Vaush, Vaush, Vaush? I believe you, you're right. You don't do that, okay? I am taking some of my hatred for lefties out on you, 'kay? But I don't think you've done that, okay? So I'll give you that, okay? That's true.
VAUSH: Yeah, and a lot of them haven't either. Initially I was very-
DESTINY: No, a lot of them have.
VAUSH: Initially- I have watched everything you have done. And I am very much a part of the left, and I am very critical of the left, and it is one of the reasons why so much of the people in BreadTube and LeftTube hate me. And I have seen so much of what you have done-
DESTINY: I have went through- and I understand, but I have went through a whole phase where all of fucking BreadTube roasted the fuck out of me because I implied that maybe racism isn't literally just an invention of capitalism, that maybe it is a little bit deeper than that. Okay, sure, okay, so- let's- okay-
VAUSH: I know- I am completely aware of that, and the context of the discussion left a lot of nuance on the table, and I wish I could have participated in that a little bit.
DESTINY: Sure, so, okay, so let's back up a little bit, okay?
VAUSH: Okay.
DESTINY: So, do you acknowledge that you can both say, "hey, here are some things you can do to improve your life condition," while then on the other hand saying, "systemically, this is why your life condition kinda sucks"?
VAUSH: Yes, on the corollary that none of the video I watched from you seemed like a good-faith attempt to give advice to poor people, and most of it seemed like you screaming about lefties.
DESTINY: Okay, you know- Sure. In that one video, is an entire amount of work that I've done, is most of my talking about poor issues, "Wow, man. Every poor person sure is a fucking moron!"? This was in one video that had to do with giving advice to people that were not able to afford where they live, and the frustrations that-
VAUSH: That's the video you asked me to go the points over. I mean, we can talk about your general positions, sure, I normally think you're more reasonable than this. This video is pretty bad, but-
DESTINY: Okay, sure. In this one specific video, I guess if you want to pretend like this is the entirety of my positions, I guess it sounded like I was just saying pull yourself up by your bootstraps? Is that what you wanna hear for this one video?
VAUSH: Well, I mean you specifically said we can go over the points in the video, so yeah. If that's the concession you wanna make for the video, I think that's perfectly applicable. If you wanna talk about your general positions, sure. But I really wish we could do it in a good faith environment, because this feels incredibly antagonistic. For all the-
DESTINY: Sure, it is antagonistic, but the problem is like-
VAUSH: For all the disagreement that you have had with broader left, I have still been one of the most tireless advocates for your worth in the general, you know, doing good things. Trans, gay people, whatever, making life better. And I'm speaking, I guess, sincerely here, I genuinely wish I could have conversations with you in that context, because what I've seen lately has just been...
DESTINY: Sure, I understand, but- You understand how fucking frustrating it is for me? I qualify the fuck out of literally every single fucking thing I say out to the fucking horse's asshole, okay? I don't know if this is a real expression, okay? I qualify everything, but it doesn't fucking matter! I still get clipped out of context every fucking day of the week anyway, so why the fuck would I waste my time?
VAUSH: I mean, I do, too! Second you and maybe Contrapoints, I'm pretty sure I'm one of the most actively misunderstood political content creators, certainly streamers, out there! I understand and sympathize. I could have had discussions with you on all of these issues.
DESTINY: Okay, sure.
VAUSH: I have not been able to because of the secret Zionist cabal that controls Twitch. Maybe we'll be able to.
DESTINY: Okay, sure, so if you know what my general positions are, okay, and I've had to deal with fucking LARPers, with frat-boy dipshits, with fuckin'- all these other bullshit people. If you know what my general positions are, and you watch this video, does this really sound like, "Wow, Destiny's 180'd on his entire positions relating to systemic or structural poverty in the United States," or do you think, "Wow, this is probably like an advice targeted towards, like, what can you do to improve your life situation, and it seems like it's probably [indistinct 16:43]
VAUSH: I mean, it didn't feel like that. I've been watching your videos for the past few months. I think your general tendencies were- I'd love to confront you on a lot of the positions I know you would defend rather than saying that things here were a little hyperbolic, or maybe a little bit off-tense. Unfortunately, the DNC debates are just starting. Do you think, God willing here, do you think we could maybe talk a little bit more amicably or perhaps in good faith, when we talk in person?
DESTINY: Not when I hear that you're going off on some fucking video when it's another fucking lefty that's found one video of mine to just fucking screech-
VAUSH: I am more aware of your content than any-
DESTINY: -about how horrible my positions are on systemic poverty, when I've spent more time talking about it than any of you fucking people in this space ever fucking have!
VAUSH: I am more aware- I am more aware of your conten-
DESTINY: It's really fucking frustrating me! It's nice that you're being amicable to me now, but that wasn't what you were like before I hopped on here.
VAUSH: Yeah, because you right now on stream, infinitely more defensible than the stuff in the video.
DESTINY: Okay, so the first point we had was that systemic poverty-
VAUSH: Wait, wait, the DNC debates are starting soon, wait, wait, really quickly.
DESTINY: Oh, okay. Alright
VAUSH: Okay, 'cause I- 'cause we have to watch Bloomberg. Wait, are you a- wait, who are you sup- is it Bloomberg or Buttigieg, or who?
DESTINY: I don't know, I very lightly lean towards Pete, but I don't have a strong desire for anybody here right now.
VAUSH: [sigh] Okay. You do realize that, while I go over your content, and my content is going over people's content, I have made an active effort, of you of all- more than any other person, not to misrepresent-
DESTINY: Listen dude, I'm sorry, I don't give a fuck what you have to say. Your title is literally "First we shit on Destiny," like I'm tired of playing nice with you guys, you all are so-
VAUSH: I didn- What are you-
DESTINY: You're like the snakiest, lying, backstabbing fucks in the world. You'll be like, "Oh yeah, Destiny, I think you're blah blah blah blah blah," and then as soon as you- as soon as I hop off the call and you're on stream and I'm not there to confront you anymore, it's, "Oh yeah, Destiny is so fucking stupid and horrible! He doesn't read enough theory! Blah blah blah blah blah!"
VAUSH: Yeah, no shit, I try to- Yeah, because when I'm having direct conversations with people I like them to be in good faith so we can examine the underlying issues-
DESTINY: Oh, but when we're talking about videos, you just like- oh, okay.
VAUSH: -and when I'm going over a video where you're screaming about how unemployed people should kill themselves, I'm going to, yeah, shit on you for those positions! I think those are-
DESTINY: Alright, cool. Well let me know on how your genocidal rampage against Israel goes, how you want them all fucking nuked to death, 'cause that's what you got banned on Twitch for!
VAUSH: What the fuck? Is that a good-faith retort?
DESTINY: Is that right? 'Cause you wanted to nuke 'em all? You want 'em to die, you want all Israelis to die, right?
VAUSH: What the fuck are you-
DESTINY: Like I want all poor people to kill themselves, right?
[beat]
VAUSH: Do you remember what I said about wanting-
DESTINY: Like that's the level of charitability you're extending me. Is that what you want?
VAUSH: Do you remember what I said about good-faith discussion?
DESTINY: You literally- Do you honestly believe that I'm telling all poor people to kill themselves?
VAUSH: No, but the rhetoric implies underlying attitudes you have towards personal responsibility and the plight of the poor. Obviously I don't literally think you believe 2.5% of America should kill themselves.
DESTINY: Why do you keep repeating it?
VAUSH: I do believe the sentiment is underlying, and if you want to criticize me for the Israel thing, sure, but are you really criticizing me for it? Or are you just trying to deflect off what I've said about you?
DESTINY: No, I'm not deflecting, and I'm not criticizing you for the Israel thing. I think hyperbole is fun. I love hyperbole. I'm hyperbolic all the fucking time! You see what I did there? That was hyperbole. But what I don't like is when someone else that engages in hyperbole takes a hyperbolic statement of mine and tries to analyze it through the lens of this strict interpretation of like, "Oh, Destiny. I'm really taking issue with the fact you told all poor people to kill themselves! I don't think that's very responsible messaging."
VAUSH: I don't literally think- and I don't think anyone watching my coverage of your video is going to think I believe that you literally want 2.5% of the population to kill themselves.
DESTINY: That's literally what you just said! You said, "You think you should kill yourself if you can't find-"
VAUSH: No, I think that hyperbole expresses underlying attitudes that you have! I can-
DESTINY: What underlying attitude-
VAUSH: If you want, I will go back and I will edit the video to be very clear over that segment, I will say, "I do not literally believe Destiny wants to kill however many million people. I do believe this sentiment, even hyperbolic, still expresses problematic attitudes towards the poor." If you want me to go back and do that, in the interest of armistice and good faith, I will happily do it. I thought it was implied, but if you want me to, I will do that.
DESTINY: Okay. I'm gonna go now.
VAUSH: I have to get to the DNC debate, I look forward to seeing you.
DESTINY: Hey, I love you buddy, okay? Be careful, alright?
VAUSH: Dude, no- come on. That's insincere.
DESTINY: What? I do! I love you! We're gonna hang out when you're here in LA! We're gonna get something to eat, we're gonna talk in person, we're gonna have a debate! It's been fun, okay?
VAUSH: [sigh] Let's make sure- Let's get the lunch before the debate, okay, so tensions won't be so-
DESTINY: Ah, we'll do it after. I'm totally chill, okay? Be careful, alright?
VAUSH: Yeah, bye.
[beat, call ends]
VAUSH: Well, I didn't expect things to end up that way, but... Holy shit, dude, he is really mad! I mean, I guess that's the main sort of underlying- He's just really, really mad. Alright, well we got a DNC debate to get to. That was pretty cool! Here, hold on... where the fuck? What site is hosting it?
